Like a leaf blowing in the wind of fear and desire, in ignorance I go from place to place seeking happiness.
In wisdom I am unmoved.
Friend: Nothing moves in fact.
Reply: Nothing moves in fact only when that fact is realized as your experience. Until then, the illusion is real and we are running away from the tiger that is chasing us.
Friend: Magdi, no one ever had any experience! that’s the coolest thing! Experience thingy is totally mind’s attribute.
Reply: Indeed, there is no separate self and thus there is no separate experience and no separate one that has any experience. And yet, we cannot deny the reality of consciousness, can we? Consciousness knowing itself, is not merely the realization that there is no separate self. It goes beyond that. It consists of the realization that I am consciousness and that this consciousness is borderless and universal. One consciousness knowing all experiences as itself. This knowing is not a conceptual knowing. It is an actual knowing, that I refer to as an experiential knowing to distinguish it from conceptual knowledge. Mind events are then revealed to be none other than consciousness appearing as such.
Friend: Magdi, reality of consciousness is no more real than reality of a wall in your room, or reality of thought, or reality of a dream. It is a hard thing for the mind to understand that realization happens for no one! ))
Reply: The wall in your room, a thought, a dream character, etc. comes and goes.
The reality of consciousness does not. The realization of ‘no separate self’ does not reveal the reality and universality of consciousness. It is an important interim understanding but it is equally important to let this understanding go and not make it an end point, in order to make room for the unfolding of the entire revelation.
Friend: Ha! thats the point bro! even this reality of consciousness comes and goes! Any knowing is conceptual knowing. This is freedom.
Reply: Maybe we are using the term consciousness in different meanings.
I refer to consciousness as THAT that is aware of these words and THAT that reads these words. The words can come and go, the aware presence does not. There is conceptual knowing, which is a mind structure of sort, and there is a knowing that precedes the mind, so to speak; a knowing that is not of the mind. A good example is the knowing that I AM. Or the knowing that consciousness/awareness IS.
Friend: Oh yes. The point is, even awareness comes and goes!
Reply: What is aware that ‘awareness comes and goes?’
Friend: the “I am” is pure mind-trapped dualism, whether on “conceptual” level or on “being” level.
Reply: Is it your experience that YOU are not? Is it your experience that YOU as consciousness are not?
Friend: Recognition happens but by no one. I have no experiences! No one ever had any experience.
Reply: What is this ‘nothing’ that is aware? You can call it nothing. I call it awareness. The name does not matter.
Friend: The word “awareness” implies something “aware” of something else. In liberation al things are happening not controlled by anyone or anything, its the only freedom that is. And not being aware by anyone or anything.
Reply: Not necessarily. YOU are aware that you are. Awareness is aware of itself. Similarly, awareness can take the form of a night dream, out of itself. It remains itself in the presence or absence of the dream.
Friend: You see, when it is said: “awareness is aware of itself” it is nothing else but mind trying to use different words for saying “I am aware or /know something else”.
Reply: Liberation is not arriving at anew belief: the ‘no one’ belief. It is the realization go our divine and wholesome nature. That is a different revelation.
Friend: If awareness was constant, no one would have switch-off as deep sleep. When there is no one and nothing aware of anything. Awareness is another word for dualism.
Reply: Are you not aware that YOU ARE? Awareness aware of itself is not a conceptual mumbo jumbo. It is our real experience.Ask yourself: Am I not aware? Denying I AM is nihilism
Friend: Oh no, I am not! I know it sounds crazy. But me being aware of myself is PART of a dream which may be now and is not the next moment.
Reply: In deep sleep, awareness is not switched off. The mind is switched off. What is it that knows that I am part of a dream?
Friend: Awareness means something(or someone) knowing (being aware of) something else. In a deep sleep this doesn’t exist!
Reply: In deep sleep, awareness is not switched off. The world, body mind is switched off. Don’t you know that you slept deeply? What is it that knows that?
Friend: What is it that knows that I am party of a dream?- nothing! nothing “knows” it. It is just being recognized at the last flash of the mind when it sees its own illusory nature before it vanishes into nothingness as a puff of a smoke. I “know” that I sleep deeply ONLY when I am awake, NOT when I am in a deep sleep. Mind wants to control everything. deep sleep is a god example that mind can not do that.
Reply: Maybe you are using the term ‘nothing’ while I am using the term ‘consciousness’. The mind comes on board ‘after’ the fact. It is awareness that fuels the mind. The mind is fueled by consciousness. It is the instrument and not the ultimate.
Friend: Well, you see …’consciousness’ implies something here being conscious of (aware of) something there. its a dream!
Reply: Mind is inert and does not control anything. Only God consciousness is the controller. the creator
Friend: This God is impersonal thing. It is simply Being as close as we can get to it verbally.
Reply: Consciousness being conscious of a world body mind and that the world body mind arises out of consciousness is not duality. Like a night dream: you dream of a pink elephant but the pink elephant is not separate from you. No duality
Friend: But it is not aware of anything, it is simply everything, But because in this Everything everything is possible to arise, in it arises fake dream of “awareness”. Being is beyond even awareness. It is undefinable.
Reply: When awareness is experiencing an external world, body mind, it is ignorance. Once it is realized that there is no external world, body mind and that the world, body mind is non-personal universal consciousness taking on this form, this is wisdom. And, yes, it is undefinable. It is beyond the mind.
Friend: There is not only no external world but also there is no internal world. )) I can say “i am happy now talking to you, a great guy!” but it does’nt need me to say that. it is nothingness speaking to nothingness. And it is only love, with no one in it. I know, crazy!
Reply: Nothingness speaking to nothingness does not seem crazy. It is the separate self that is a crazy belief that is unfounded and lacking any evidence. It is separation that is loco.
Friend: When it is realized that all is unreal, it is realized by no one, just recognized. and the moment of this recognition signifies total death/annihilation of the “me”. From this point onward “me” can never ever come into being again.
Reply: A complete glimpse into our true nature can kill the “me” or can mortally wound it. In most cases, there is much more stored at the feeling level. We can see that, even after the glimpse, whenever someone cuts us off in traffic and we get pissed off.
Friend: Whee..mortally wounding will not do the trick! It has to be totally annihilated. Piss off happens either before or after liberation, because there are no rules. Liberated person is an oxymoron. He is not supposed to be “peace-loving” and “balanced” at all. But in most cases (more often than not) after liberation there is more peace because there is absence of a tension of the mind that existed before. but still there are no rules
Reply: Causeless Peace, beauty, joy, happiness are revealed with the total annihilation of ignorance. In most cases, that requires clearing the ignorance at the feeling state.
Friend: The problem is, “we” can’t do anything about “cleaning ignorance at feeling state”. It either happens or not. When it happens it happens for no one! Happy Halloween!
Reply: In spite of the absence of a separate me, at some point in the contemplation, it becomes clear that I can choose wisdom rather than the old patterns of ignorance and duality. This I is not the imagined separate self. It is the I of God. The I of love. Love of truth. Happy Happy….
Friend: No bro, we can’t “choose” anything, thats the point. If you cud choose you would be an individual with “free will” which doesn’t exist in nature. What happens to you (apparently) is not controlled at all by you (how can it, when you is unreal?), it just happens (also apparently!) Yes, when there is only love that is left, it is freedom. But even in this freedom anything can happen, even sadness or boredom. Difference is it will not have sticking point as it had when “me” existed and thus there will be no existential suffering any more. Its freedom in a free fall and true, there is much more love and happiness in it then when “me’ was alive. But this happiness happens to no one! just naked happiness!
Reply: When we refer to ‘me’ as a separate ‘me’, indeed this me cannot choose anything since it is a dream. Individuals have no free will since they do not exist in reality. Only the reality of God (universal consciousness) IS. Nothing happens to you. Everything is consciousness, God giggling. Boredom is the old me reappearing. Preferring a better dream. Resisting what is. The old habit of separation, resistance and seeking.
Friend: Hey true what you said in first two paragraphs, but as for boredom, it can even happen in “awakened” state. Thing is, liberation has no set rules about how awakened person should feel or live. Such awakened person even doesn’t exist, as we all know. Boredom or joy happens by itself, without attachment to any personality. But in liberated state, it is not accompanied by existential suffering which is specific only to separate mind.16 hrs · Like
Reply: Causeless Joy and happiness are divine qualities. Boredom is a mind quality. God does not get bored. Man does.